James Tanner: Thoughts From Around the NHL: OV for Hart, Kopitar Underrated, Lindros HOF Just some thoughts from around the league

Don't worry about Ovechkin, he's used to not winning anything.

How is he valuable to his team if his team can't make the playoffs.

Sorry but I don't think Washington/Ovi will return to their dominate lights out form

You kind of convinced me that I'd rather have Kopitar on my team than Ovi, which undermined the Ovi for Hart argument.

Ovi coasts so hard now a days it is unbelievable. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the MVP race. His plus minus alone eliminates him from being considered.

How is he valuable to his team if his team can't make the playoffs.

Sorry but I don't think Washington/Ovi will return to their dominate lights out form
- Danformo

Sorry, but that is a ridiculous argument that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

It isn't Ovechkins fault that his GM - who was fired - created a team with two star players and a bunch of duds.

OV personally scored nearly 25% of his teams goals. What is he supposed to do? Will the second, third and fourth lines to be better? Use his telepathic skills to help the goalie make more saves?

Come on.

Ovi coasts so hard now a days it is unbelievable. He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the MVP race. His plus minus alone eliminates him from being considered.
- Mahewman

I could just as easily say that you mentioning plus/minus at all invalidates your argument.

How is he valuable to his team if his team can't make the playoffs.

Sorry but I don't think Washington/Ovi will return to their dominate lights out form
- Danformo

He scored 8 more goals than the next player, how could he possibly be anymore dominant?

I want some of what your drinking! The best player in the NHL finishes with a -35. Ovi is one of the most selfish players in recent memory. This is most laughable statement, 'the best player wasn't even nominated' I've ever read. This article was joke!

He scored 8 more goals than the next player, how could he possibly be anymore dominant?
- James_Tanner

You're on your own on this one. He hurts his team just as much as he helps them

I could just as easily say that you mentioning plus/minus at all invalidates your argument.
- James_Tanner

No one on his own team is even close to him in +-. Great fantasy player. That is all.

Ovi the best player in the NHL

Come on, man. You can't actually believe that, can you? He may be the best pure goal scorer, but that is debatable with Stamkos. Ovi isn't in the top 5 best players in the NHL. Best players play a complete game. I take Crosby, Toews, Stamkos, Kopitar, and Kane over him. That's not even including Defenseman or other guys like Giroux/Getzlaf/Malkin/Tavares/Bergeron who would be in the discussion.

How is he valuable to his team if his team can't make the playoffs.

Sorry but I don't think Washington/Ovi will return to their dominate lights out form
- Danformo

Kessel is extremely valuable to the Leafs and had a monster season and we didn't make the playoffs. Missing the playoffs doesn't make Kessel/Tavares/Ovechkin/Karlsson any less valuable to their teams but it definitely takes them out of the running for MVP.

James Tanner: Thoughts From Around the NHL: OV for Hart, Kopitar Underrated, Lindros HOF
Just some thoughts from around the league
- James_Tanner

Lindros as good as Gretzky or Lemieux

He's not even close

You're on your own on this one. He hurts his team just as much as he helps them
- coolehmon41

I highly doubt I am on my own here. Sure, most people would disagree, but most people tend to be wrong about everything anyways.

You do realize that the real value of a goal is such that he would have to be nearly minus 200 before his 51 goals were negated?

You do realize that plus minus is a ridiculous stat that is quite literally useless? It totally negates what he does on the Power Play for instance.

This is quite literally an argument I am not going to win, in terms of popular opinion, but in terms of reality, it's also one I am 100% correct about, so I am not gonna even bother arguing beyond this.

OV deserves the Hart and someone had to say it!.

Kessel is extremely valuable to the Leafs and had a monster season and we didn't make the playoffs. Missing the playoffs doesn't make Kessel/Tavares/Ovechkin/Karlsson any less valuable to their teams but it definitely takes them out of the running for MVP.
- coolehmon41

Kessel had a nice offensive outburst but he is still a minus player which is a scary thought considering how many points he put up.

Lindros as good as Gretzky or Lemieux

He's not even close
- Reveen

You might as well said "You think trees produce Oxygen? lolololol"

Because you clearly didn't see him play in the NHL between 1993-97. He was only like the third highest PPG player of all time during that period and he did it during one of the lowest scoring eras in NHL history.

I highly doubt I am on my own here. Sure, most people would disagree, but most people tend to be wrong about everything anyways.

You do realize that the real value of a goal is such that he would have to be nearly minus 200 before his 51 goals were negated?

You do realize that plus minus is a ridiculous stat that is quite literally useless? It totally negates what he does on the Power Play for instance.

This is quite literally an argument I am not going to win, in terms of popular opinion, but in terms of reality, it's also one I am 100% correct about, so I am not gonna even bother arguing beyond this.

OV deserves the Hart and someone had to say it!.
- James_Tanner

Well, if you're so 100% sure that you're right, then it must be so.....

Kessel is extremely valuable to the Leafs and had a monster season and we didn't make the playoffs. Missing the playoffs doesn't make Kessel/Tavares/Ovechkin/Karlsson any less valuable to their teams but it definitely takes them out of the running for MVP.
- coolehmon41

It does take them out of the running, and it shouldn't. It is a very dumb way to look at things when you're giving out an individual award in a team sport. The best player might play on a bad team and that's just life. Ask Jerome Iginla.

I highly doubt I am on my own here. Sure, most people would disagree, but most people tend to be wrong about everything anyways.

You do realize that the real value of a goal is such that he would have to be nearly minus 200 before his 51 goals were negated?

You do realize that plus minus is a ridiculous stat that is quite literally useless? It totally negates what he does on the Power Play for instance.

This is quite literally an argument I am not going to win, in terms of popular opinion, but in terms of reality, it's also one I am 100% correct about, so I am not gonna even bother arguing beyond this.

OV deserves the Hart and someone had to say it!.
- James_Tanner

lol lol! Ya someone had to say it! Your delusional!the biggest puck hog in recent memory. Assists are a huge part if the game. Seeing the ice and your teamates are what create scoring. Ovi only sees the goal as per him shooting the puck 100 times more than anyone else.

You might as well said "You think trees produce Oxygen? lolololol"

Because you clearly didn't see him play in the NHL between 1993-97. He was only like the third highest PPG player of all time during that period and he did it during one of the lowest scoring eras in NHL history.
- James_Tanner

Depsite injuries both Gretzky (back) and Lemieux (cancer and back) never crapped the bed offensively as bad as Lindros did outside of his four good seasons.

Kessel had a nice offensive outburst but he is still a minus player which is a scary thought considering how many points he put up.
- Reveen

Plus/minus is such a team stat though. Kessel on the Bruins was a plus player, Kessel on the Leafs has been minus.

Plus/minus is such a team stat though. Kessel on the Bruins was a plus player, Kessel on the Leafs has been minus.
- Zezel

Plus minus is such a bad stat that it shouldn't even be tracked, let alone talked about.

Just imagine how many goals Ovechkin would score if there was a player on the second line in Washington making it so that he didn't face the best defensive players every time he is on the ice.

I just don't believe that people value goals high enough. Puck hog, bad defense, coaster, whatever you want to say about him, he still lead the league in the stat that literally decides who wins.

Depsite injuries both Gretzky (back) and Lemieux (cancer and back) never crapped the bed offensively as bad as Lindros did outside of his four good seasons.
- Reveen

http://www.skepticalrapto...es/False_Equivalence.html

Plus/minus is such a team stat though. Kessel on the Bruins was a plus player, Kessel on the Leafs has been minus.
- Zezel

Kessel on the Bruins was a minus play two of his three season.